Request for Offical Statement from The Organizations targeted to receive the allotment of tags from the Proposal

Don Peay, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife Founder and Founder of Utah FNAWS

Chris,

You have put out a bunch of false and inaccurate information about this Convention proposal.

First of all, the 200 permits would not be auctioned to the rich guys as you claim. They will be in a drawing, 1 application per person so there is even odds for all sportsmen who want to come and contribute to wildlife conservation in Utah – there is a need for over $100 Million to restore rangelands devastated by drought, and 30 years of inactive management. Utah has a plan in place, with multiple partners, state, local, federal, to restore close to 1 million acres of critical wildlife habitats. The cost of rehab is $50 to $150 per acre. There is also a need to acquire tens of millions of dollars of critical winter range.

Second of all, I was contacted by the Davis County Economic development and tourism board, and when they saw the facts, versus your propaganda, they put out a clarification email and the leader of the groups said, “A great idea for Utah business and a great idea for Utah wildlife, we should support this proposal.”

Third, Bill Christensen of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, John Leonard of the National Wild Turkey Federation, Ryan Foutz of Utah FNAWS, and Ray Lee of National FNAWS, Tony Abbott of the Mule Deer Foundation, and Byron Bateman of Sportsmen for Habitat have held numerous meetings, and have agreed in principle to work together and pull of this super convention. It will either by the “national convention” of some of the groups, or “State or Regional” convention of other groups. While this is a new event, and there will be a few challenges to pull it off, as completely disclosed in all the public meetings, the potential upside for wildlife conservation is very large, and that is why 10 RAC meetings, two wildlife board meetings have all shown positive, and more than super majority votes in favor of the proposal.

There has been no final document to present to the Board, because the Board has not yet determined the exact RULE under which the permits would be allocated.

Once this RULE has been finalized, then groups – including groups other than those mentioned above will be allowed to make an application for these permits. The Rule as proposed would then have the DWR and Wildlife Board allocate these permits to the groups with the best proposal. Bottom line, there can be no proposal until there is a firm rule outlining what is expected.

As stated in all the public meetings, the five groups above have not committed all the funds to Utah projects, as much of the money will most likely come from out of state money, and Utah has been the recipient of wildlife transplants and wildlife conservation funds from outside of Utah. If Utah has such a small minded and provincial attitude about keeping everything in Utah, how can Utah expect continued support and importing wildlife from outside of Utah? Additionally, many contributors to these groups and this convention that live in Utah also enjoy hunting in other states, we don’t mind investing in habitat in other states as well. What goes around, comes around.

Having said all that, It is believed that the majority of the application fees raised will go into Utah wildlife conservation projects. If you look at the track record of the five groups above, there has been tens of millions of dollars funding projects in Utah, projects that have increased wildlife herds and benefited the 85% of the sportsmen who are not involved, nor have not contributed to these projects.

I have attached a file showing the increase in Utah wildlife permit numbers – 200 to 600% increase over the past 12 years, the sales price of the “Statewide or Governors Permit” over the past 12 years that shows about a 500% increase in market perceived quality in Utah animals, and a little calculation showing the increase amount of $22 Million in total POTENTIAL value to Utah wildlife. In no way am I recommending selling all these permits, it is a calculation to show some people that make decisions based on money that there has been a significant increase in value to Utah, the vast majority of which has been passed on to Utah’s citizens at prices way below market value, and in many instances way below the cost to actually produce the animals. The point here is that Utah hunters who get these tremendous permits should be appreciative of the efforts made by conservation groups in partnerships with the state and federal agencies to make this happen.

I make no official comment for any of these organizations, that is up to them. For the past 5 months, I have served without pay from these groups to coordinate this combined effort. I have also traveled to many states meeting with various boards and sportsmen groups to get their support and understanding. To make the statement that these conventions would come to Utah without these permits is entirely false. Of 80 potential conventions over the past 20 years, 3 have been in Utah, not a good track record, and as I have found out, there are many misperceptions of Utah. Hopefully, this convention will set the record straight.

My official comment would be this. Utah wildlife and wildlife in the west faces incredible pressure in the face of Human populations growth, and all of the various activities that brings, including but not limited to loss of winter range, loss of productivity of federal lands, increased highway mortality, selling off of thousands of acres of School Trust Lands annually, Oil and Gas exploration to meet the increasing energy needs, and increased wildlife mortality due to predation. Utah lost over 100,000 deer hunters and a base population of over 300,000 deer. According to the biologists and range managers, unless nearly $100 Million is invested, deer and elk numbers will decline permanently.

Conversely, the attached graphs show that when sportsmen unite in a conservation group that partners with the DWR and Federal land agencies, the downward trends can be reversed, and populations can actually increase, which means increased hunting opportunities for everyone. The statewide elk plan being approved this week calls for the opportunity to increase elk from current 58,000 animals to perhaps 80,000 animals as habitat investment is made.

This convention will be a tremendous opportunity for all 120,000 or so Utah big game and turkey hunters to get involved, make a contribution to protect a sport and heritage they love. It will also be an opportunity to show the Utah legislature that hunting is a valuable and important part of Utah’s economy and culture. It will also be an opportunity for 120,000 sportsmen to thank the Utah legislature and Governor Huntsman who allocated an all time record $5.4 Million of non license funds (sales tax and general funds) this past session for critical land conservation and improving rangeland health. 15% of Utah’s hunters are involved in groups making a big difference, this convention will be a great opportunity for every sportsmen to get involved and make the major investments required to protect large and abundant game herds.

Finally, it will be an incredible opportunity for all the sportsmen groups to come together, save fundraising costs that can be translated to wildlife conservation investments, and bring all sportsmen from around the country together to have an equal chance to invest to make more wildlife, and reap the rewards of 200 of the west’s best hunting permits.

Don Peay
Founder SFW
Founder Utah FNAWS

My Response to Don Peay's e-mail

Don,

My take, (included below these personal comments) sent out to my mailing list as well, on what the last week's work has panned out. I do appreciate you taking the time to reply and voice your opposing comments, and help in getting some of the questions I have been bombarded with answered. The biggest problem I see, you yourself admit, and that is that only 15% of the public hunting numbers belong to these groups for various reasons, yet the 85% left…. Are viewed by these groups as per say… not involved in making sure there is a future. That statement alone, within the hunting community causes a very harsh taste for the 85% and shows huge discontent and a lack of wanting to support "Organized" hunting fund raising events. I am the first person to admit that I started out pretty blind and had a hell of a time finding any information on public record for this proposal, so it was EASY for me to get facts wrong… wouldn't you agree?

You may use this anyway you like, but I will relate to you my personal experience at the SFW Banquet I attended many years ago in Provo. ( I went to one more after this with much the same end feeling) I came down with great enthusiasm to help support SFW, you personally and Prop 5. You most likely do not even remember meeting me that day. I offered to help create a web site for SFW, free of charge, hosting, design, the works to help gain support of your efforts to get Prop 5 to go through. Using my, at the time, number 1 hunting related web site anywhere on the web, to carry this word out. You seemed pretty excited and took a few minutes to talk it over before the ball got rolling with the banquet.

I ended up sitting at a table with no one I knew. Not a problem, I go out into public and make friends easily and am comfortable in these situations. I sat back and listened to the presentations on School Trust Land exchanges, protecting critical winter range, and many other topics… I was hooked. I went out, left the table and paid my membership right there. Feeling a little giddy to be a member of the first "hunting group" I had ever been a part of and committed to never let this feeling of, "I can be involved and make a difference" fade away from me in my life. Returning to the table, ready for more excitement and raffle fun the fun began to quickly fade.

I watched items that should have gone for huge dollars, go for half what they where worth. Of course as a 40 hours a week, blue collar worker, the prices where out of my range unless I wanted to forgo any chance at a hunting/fishing permit or taking away food from my 4 children and wife. Sad…. Out of the range of the "general hunter", yet a BARGIN for the people with large amounts of expendable money for recreational purposes. Luxury money, I look at that cherished few dollars I can chip out each year for recreational purposes. I realized as I listened to my table mates make their attack strategies for the items they wanted, talking about how they couldn't touch that permit for less than $4,000.00 through an outfitter and then high fiving each other as one of them scored the trip for $1,800.00. How many "general hunters" save all there life, never belong to SFW or any other group, and end up paying out that $4,000.00 with a BIG grin on their face as they do. FULL PRICE, no problem. I think hunters would do the same given the opportunity straight to the DWR, giving ALL the money to them for the projects and funding they need to manage wildlife as we have designated them to? I left that day wondering if this was really what I wanted to be involved with or not. I gave it one more try with SFW and found the same at the next banquet. Not singling out SFW, I have been to many of these events now, do my best to support their efforts in raising items for raffle, MC'ing their events, helping get the word out to the public on being a part of these groups (as I did for SFW at the recent ISE Show at the Hunting Theater to promote your banquet), yet I chose to NOT be a member due to the personal experiences I had.

This I have found, is a widely agreed upon view of banquets and use of tags given out for fund raising events there. Just ask the other 85%. Look outside your organization again, to the "grass roots effort" you originally introduced to me that day at the banquet Don. I ask this from the other 85% of Utah's hunters. They are the grass roots of Utah. They buy 85% of the gear from Sportsman Warehouse and other retailers, they buy 85% gas, of the general tags available to the public, I could go on and on... they pay 85% of the taxes too and deserve a voice.

Respectfully,
Cris Draper

Include e-mail mentioned above

Dear Utah Outdoors Friends

What a week... It started off last Saturday at the end of the show, when a caller, Phill Newman, called into the show and asked if we had the details on the 200 Convention Tags Proposal that was up for review at the Wildlife Board meeting (which is to be held tomorrow, Thursday March 31 at 9 AM, in SLC and is open to the public) and if I had an opinion on the issue or could find out more information. Armed with little information, and knowing from past experience, I had a tough road ahead of me, I took on the task as promised to Phill to track down any and all information I could. Literally over a hundred e-mails, and over 460 of cell phone minutes later, I still am not totally convinced that I even have a clear picture of the total issue, and am the first to admit it. I have though, contacted everyone I could to try and mine out the details, and often these details are so complicated or twisted with the limited time I have had to digest all the information, I felt the best way for me to handle this was to post all the information I could gather and the comments on-line, and let you decide for yourself! www.utahoutdoors.com

The comments, documents I have been able to procure, answers to e-mails asking for official statements, the whole kit and caboodle is post at www.utahoutdoors.com. I have been accused of using this issue to sensationalize my web site and can only say... I was asked to get involved and belive if asked to do something within my power to try to help out. I could honestly care less if the site gets a thousand visitors over this issue other than if I can reach out to that many concerned individuals on this issue then I will get a clear view of the "real" views of the people whom this ultimately affects, not only the views of the supporting organizations behind this proposal. I have been accused of not providing accurate details. I have been informed that there is NO CLEAR or "FINAL" document for this proposal as it has not been decided on by the Wildlife Board and a final document will not be complete until AFTER the decision has been made. Is this giving the public a chance to speak out on ALL the details of the proposal BEFORE it is to late? You decide, I never want to make the choice for you, I just want to help everyone involved make informed, fair and majority rule decisions for the betterment of opportunities for ALL, not 15%.

I take the 15% figure, as I have heard often from the invloved hunting organizations, as being the "15% of Utah’s hunters are involved in groups making a big difference". Wait a minute... What about the other 85% that has for their own reason or lack of wanting to be involved period, yet still pay taxes, work on Dedicated Hunter Programs, Wildlife Habitat Projects, going to RAC meetings, pay out millions of dollars for sporting goods and tags each year, hoping to someday be able to cash in on the many years of saving up both funds, knowledge and skills, let alone perferences tags. For that once in a lifetime opportunity, only to now find out that all the time and effort are ignored nor appreciated with comments like the above 15% doing it ALL attitude of the organized hunting groups. I am sure our work and efforts do make a difference, as does the thousand of dollars we spend in our qwuest as a non member of one of these mentioned groups.

I have heard from hundreds, if not more, people over the last 11 years of being actively involved in Utah's outdoor issues, that have voiced many opinions and sparked many long conversations on why they themselves are not more involved with the issues they are passionate about. I would estimate off the top of my head, over half of these people have been a member of many of the organizations out their, and for many reasions have now elected not to belong. To often it is due to high costs to be involved on an active basis and support conventions efforts, or due to a bad experience at a convention. or a bucket full of other reasons. They still have a voice and choice don't they?

I also have heard TO MANY times that "I did go to the RAC Meeting and spoke, and no one listened", or "I felt like no matter what anyone from the public said at the RAC Meeting, the Board Members made their own decision". I see TO MANY colnflicts of interest in the current construction and membership of the RAC and Wildlife Boards. Is it right that a Board Member, and person holding an active vote in the decision, of the RAC also be a Board Member of an Organization that potenially benefits from that decision? Would a Judge or Lawyer or Legislator be allowed that much lienience of conflict? Should the Public stand for this? Personally, I feel it is not right.

I AM NOT NOW NOR NEVER WILL say these organizations are not a very valuable, nor that they are not needed to help protect our rights, fund programs, enhance range and habitat, provide valuable man power for research projects, bring in much needed dollar for funding these said projects/programs and many more. I am not bashing anyone, or anything here, rather voicing my personal concerns and trying to provide all sides of this issue in the process. I have paid memberships for many of these organizations from Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife in it's early years of formation, to the Mule Deer Foundation and even serving on the Salt Lake Committee for the Mule Deer Foundation personally for one stretch, and may again in the future. I am not against the RAC Members or the Wildlife Board, or the Utah DWR. THey have a tough job to do an my hat is off to the people behind the scenes on a regular basis, but I do not feel the "general public's" voice is being heard by the RAC Board Members and the 15% of the organized efforts are now over taking the 85% of the general publics desires. Just my take... I am human and appreciate that we all have our own opinions and beliefs.

I just know that here I sit on Wednesday evening, knowing that within 24 hours from now, my bonus points for the bull moose I have watched for 5 years now on the Wastach front and put in for my preference points hoping to someday even be able to afford the several hundred dollars to actually apply as a general Utah resident hunter, for more than a preference point.... Just got harder to draw if this proposal goes through and the term "Once in a Lifetime" and "Limited Entry" in Utah no longer means that at all for the next 5 years.

Thank you for your time in reading this e-mail and the comments posted on the site. Both good and bad, I personally have learned a lot in the last week. Yet more fully understand now that the more I know, often the less I understand. Hope you tune in Saturday for the show and if you have an opinion make sure you get to the Wildlife Board Meeting on Thursday. You know that the organized groups will be there with their 15% to represent 100% of Utah.

Respectfully,Cris Draper
the Trail Master
www.kslradio.com

Response from Tony Abbott, V.P. Mule Deer Foundation

Cris

I hope the purpose of your investigation is to get the truth out about this convention. As you may know I host an outdoor show on 1320 kfan and have hashed this out several times. I would be more then willing to spend the time with you on your show to help you and your listeners understand the purpose and goals of this convention.

Let me know and I will come in studio on Sat. morning so people could get info from the horses mouth.

I will wait for your reply.

Tony Abbott
V.P. Mule Deer Foundation

NOTE - Tony Abbott has been invited to join us in studio on Saturday morning at 7 AM. TUNE IN!

My Reply to Tony

That is my goal. It has not been easy or without major criticism and praise, but well worth it. This is a tough issue and I personally think it goes to far. Just my take. Look forward to seeing you on Saturday.

Cris

REsponse from Bill Christensen, Regional Director, RMEF

Cris,

If you review the facts, you’d see this proposal is a “win/win” for wildlife and sportsmen. The reputation of the RMEF is one of honesty and accomplishment; we are happy to join with the other sportsmen’s organizations involved in this proposal; Utah’s wildlife and habitat will only be the better. I would welcome a discussion with you any time to discuss this visionary proposal.

Bill Christensen
Regional Director, RMEF

My Response

Bill,

Feel free to join in this weekend on the radio show telephone lines. The numbers are available on-line at www.kslradio.com. It may be hard to get through the lines after 7 AM once we open the topic for comment on air. Alan Clark will be calling in at 7 and Tony Abbott will be filling the last seat in studio at & as well. I see many aspects of this issue that the “general hunter” in Utah does not agree with, and as admitted many times over by many of the organized groups supporting this issue, they are the 15% of the people making a difference in wildlife, that leaves the other 85% of the hunter unrepresented and feeling like the many valuable contributions they make are ignored nor valued as equal with the organized groups efforts.

85% has a huge majority rule over 15% of the organized groups and their views need to begin to be heard and understood by both the RAC comities and the wildlife organizations they choose not to be a part of for many reasons.

Respectfully,
Cris

NOTE: The Wildlife Board Meeting is March 31st at 9 AM. The Radio Show will air the topic live at 7:00 AM MT on Saturday April 2nd, 2005. It is also available on the web at www.kslradio.com

If you would like to post your comments here, send them to radio@utahoutdoors.com.